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Friday, October 15, 2021

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    Is Real Estate Really That Expensive? – Robert Kiyosaki, Kim Kiyosaki and Jason Hartman

    (upbeat music) – [Male Announcer] This is “The Rich Dad Radio Show,” the good news and bad news about money. Here’s Robert Kiyosaki. – Hello, hello, hello, Robert Kiyosaki, “The Rich Dad Radio Show,” the good news and bad news about money. And today is a very important show for you. Not only if you’re a real estate person or a gold person or anything, it’s really about what something is worth, what is this real value, especially in today’s economy when we can’t measure value anyway, and what is inflation and what is inflation means?

    And I’m old enough to remember when inflation numbers were real, now they’re fake. And so it’s a really, really important time to listen to this program because the question is what is something worth? And it was an indicator called CPI, Consumer Price Index, and it’s 100% manipulated. I mean, they just make it what they want it to say, and everybody goes, “oh,” but it’s a very important number because inflation or what’s called cost of living adjustments and all that are all based upon the CPI.

    So if the CPI goes up, then lots of things jump in price ’cause you have to adjust for it.

    So they adjust it down. And so I’ve never seen a more confusing time in all my years in business here, so it’s a very important program. Kim is in South Carolina at our home there. – Yep. I just wanna say Robert isn’t everything manipulated these days.

    (Kim laughs) What I’m excited about for this show is that, you know, we’re always trying to figure out the truth behind something or what’s real ’cause everything’s so fake. So hopefully, I’ve trust today is gonna be a great value because we’re gonna look at what’s real versus what’s fake. – And it’s not only what’s real or what’s fake, it is what can you say without getting taken down? (Kim laughs) I mean, I weigh back at Gestapo times, you know, what is happening? So our guess today is Jason Hartman, he’s a friend of friends.

    We’re all together at George Gammon’s event in Miami, which was a fabulous event. I guess George is having another one in Houston or something now. And I was just listening to him and he’s out there as usual. And so, it’s a very important time to be paying attention, not that what we say are facts, but these are our points of view of what’s going on in the economy today. So our guest today is Jason Hartman, he’s a founder and CEO of the Hartman Media Company and the Hartman Foundation.

    And we’re gonna be talking about HCI. So Jason, give us a little bit of your background, but what does HCI mean? – Sure. So thanks Robert. The HCI is a new index that I created to try and get a better handle on real estate values and to backtest them through history and then to also use the HCI, the Hartman Comparison Index to project forward what might be coming down the pike because as you’ve said, and Kim has said, we are in very strange times, everything is manipulated nowadays.

    Everything is a scam. I think people are catching on. You know, back in 2005, 2004, when I was giving talks at conferences and then started podcasting about 2006. You know, you talk to people about the Federal Reserve. You talk to them about monetary policy and very few people even were in tune with that, you know?

    But now, you know, people are really getting it. And I think cryptocurrencies to some extent are responsible for that. People understand what fiat money is now by authority. You know, it’s fake money. That’s what we basically have with every currency on Earth.

    It’s all by fiat by authority. And so, you know, how do we value anything in a highly manipulated, highly censored environment. Big tech companies are censoring everybody. You can’t speak the truth anymore. It’s like George Orwell’s book “1984.

    ” You know, it’s a very discouraging time and very disconcerting in many ways. But one thing that has a lot of data in it and this is why communism and socialism have been a disaster every time in history and every place on Earth is because they didn’t have the data of accurate price signals and price signals contain just a fortune, a wealth of data in them.

    So when any commodity in the market, whether it be a good or a service, has a price and that price is determined by hopefully a free market, if not, at least a relatively free market, if we use that price signal and all the data it has behind it, like why is the price of gold what it is? Why is the price of oil what it is? Why is the price of Bitcoin what it is?

    Why is the dollar valued compared to other currencies at whatever value it is? When we use all that data and we take maybe 40 of these products and services or commodities and services, and we combine them into an index and then compare that index to housing prices, we can learn a lot.

    And I think we can really mitigate any downside risk and possibly have a lot of upside potential by using that. – If the numbers are accurate. – [Jason] You’re right, absolutely.

    – So Kim and I remember when, how did they measure the value of a rent? They basically said, “If you were living in your house, what would you charge yourself rent for?” – [Jason] Yeah. – That’s how they got the rental value. – [Jason] Yeah.

    – And then, you know, Kim and I, we bought our first house together. Kim had to go to our gold depository ’cause we didn’t (Jason laughs) choose the dollar.

    Thank you. – Yeah, we had been stacking silver bars in our closet, in our master bedroom, in LA Jolla, California, when we were pretty broke. – [Jason] Yeah.

    – We were buying our own personal residence up in Portland, Oregon. And they said, we need $23,000 now, quick. – [Jason] Right. – Because our credit was so bad, it’s like we had to jump on this. – [Jason] Right.

    – And so yeah, I took the silver bars and grocery bags to the precious metals dealer down the street and got our $23,000. – You know, that is a great story. See, if someone watching or listening has been saving to buy maybe their first rental property and say they’ve been doing that for 10 years, no one told them they had to save their money denominated in dollars. They could have saved that money, that wealth, as they accumulated it, they get paid in dollars, but they could immediately convert them to gold, silver, cryptocurrencies, oil, orange juice, rice, anything, right? They could convert them to anything.

    And as they stored that wealth, the question is if it took them 5 years or 10 years, what was it worth vis-a-vis the dollar? You know, everything in life is understood. Go ahead. – Just hang on, hang on. ‘Cause you can look too complex for the “Rich Dad” crowd here.

    – Okay, oh come on. (Jason laughs) – Now, I was watching the Suns game and there was a realtor there with her husband and she had tax problems. And so, as she was sitting with her accountant, this guy should go to jail, I think personally. I was listening to the conversation and apparently, because a real estate market’s been going up so fast, she hasn’t been buying and flipping as well as selling, you know, as a broker, so they’re getting commission. So they were flipping properties and all this, but they never paid the taxes.

    Kim, I’m sitting there, I’m at Thomas Hills listening to this horror story and I’m going.

    And I said, “holy mackerel.” So her solution was she was gonna flip another property. – Right. – I said to her- – To pay for the taxes?

    – Yep. And I said, “He’s just making it worse.” And she had no idea what I was talking about. She was going to short-term capital gains. – [Jason] Right.

    – She was gonna flip another property. And on top of that, I said, “What if the market crashed?” And she said, the words I’ve been waiting to hear, “Oh, real estate prices always go up.” – Yeah, right.

    (Jason and Robert laughing) – So Kim, remember those words?

    – I do remember those words. And that’s why, Jason, I like this index that you’re doing, because everybody says, “Oh, the prices are through the roof,” and they’re this and that. “And they’re so inflated,” but you’re saying, “maybe not,” because let’s compare it to real goods and services – and see exactly – [Jason] Yep.

    – where they do stand, not just opinions. Everybody’s on opinions today.

    – [Jason] I know. – Everybody know few facts out there. – A lot of opinions with little data. Right, Kim? – [Kim] Yeah, yeah.

    – Yeah. Yeah, couldn’t agree more. And- – The data is accurate. That’s some other bitch. – Yeah, that’s a huge thing.

    – But understand how bad it is. If somebody is afraid, should they give you true data? Because they might get deplatformed. – [Jason] Yeah. – Man, this whole thing is like that woman, that realtor with her husband with the CPA gonna flip her way out (laughs) of a tax problem.

    – [Jason] Yeah. You know, I think it was your book, Robert, “Who Took My Money?” where you gave the comparison of the dairy farmer versus the cattle rancher, I believe. – Yeah. – And the flippers are the cattle ranchers, right?

    You know, but at some point, that game of musical chairs ends and those prices don’t go up and the flipping doesn’t always work, right? So yeah.

    Better to be a cashflow investor. – How did you get into this, Jason? What’s your background?

    – Into real estate, in general. – Yeah, into everything you’re doing these days. – [Jason] Yeah. – And tell us what you do these days. – You know, I grew up poor.

    I lived in Los Angeles. I had a single mom, it was a struggle for sure. And I saw an infomercial when I was 16 years old of a guru. This was before the Kiyosaki era. And I got his book and I read three chapters and put it down and my mom read the rest.

    And about two years later, she said, you know, “I’ve been checking out these real estate seminars. There’s one in Anaheim, why don’t you go?” And so I went, and that really inspired me to get my real estate license, to just kinda learn the basics in the business. And 6 months into my career, I was 20, I bought my first rental property from a client of mine.

    Yeah, so it’s been a great ride.

    – Ruined those, there’s not a lot of ’em. – Oh, that was Robert Allen. – Oh yeah. (crosstalking) – Back in the old days, yeah. – Yeah.

    – Yup, we read that well. We read that book. – Yep, yep. – Yeah, yep. – Yeah, you’re always- – Yeah, a book can change your life.

    A book can change your life. – Yeah, absolutely. I mean, look at “Rich Dad, Poor Dad,” it’s changed millions and millions of lives. I mean, you know, the first time I heard about “Rich Dad, Poor Dad” was when I was in Australia, I was on a trip for a couple weeks in Australia. And my friend and I, we’re cruising around Australia, met a couple and he mentioned “Rich Dad, Poor Dad.

    ” I’d never heard of it before.

    And this was in 1999, I think. – So, explain the Hartman Commodity Index. – So the comparison index, it’s all about comparison, for example. You know, how do you know anything without comparison?

    You know, if you have a rich dad and a poor dad, you have an understanding of two schools of thought, right? And I think we do that with pretty much everything in life, Robert, we compare things and that’s how we value things.

    And so, if you compare the price of real estate to this basket of commodities and services, I think you can really determine a lot by it. So let’s take gold, for example. – But is that what HCI does?

    Hartman Commodity Index. – [Jason] Yeah. It compares, yeah. – So I’m gonna help you. How does somebody access it?

    – Well, they’re accessing it right now, (laughs) for example. And we’ve got a white paper on it that we’re happy to share and you can get that through my website. – What’s your website? Where do they go? – jasonhartman.

    com Just my name. Yeah. – And specifically, what happens? Will they go on there and they have a two bedroom, one bath and Podunk? Can they compare that with Goldman?

    What is the comparison? – Yeah. Well, the comparison is like this in the index. So if you go back to say 1970, when we were still on the gold standard, before Nixon took us off, the median price house was $22,000 in change. And back then, gold was $35.

    So if you wanted to buy the median price house in gold, it would take 646 ounces of gold.

    Today, the median house price is about 348,000, you know, give or take, depending on what index you’re listening to. Gold is about almost $1,800. So today, to buy that house, it would only take 194 ounces of gold. – What was the 1970 comparison?

    – 646. So today, it’s less than a third. It’s cheaper, priced in gold. – Wow. – Isn’t that cool?

    Yeah. – It is really cool. Hey, we gonna go to a break right now, but I want everybody to stay tuned because it’s really important today, we have some kind of basis or I call it benchmark as to what something’s worth.

    So we’d be right back. Welcome back.

    Robert Kiyosaki, “The Rich Dad Radio Show,” the good news and bad news about money. You can listen to “The Rich Dad Radio” program, anytime, anywhere on iTunes, Android, or YouTube. And all of our programs are archived at richdadradio.com We archive them so that you can listen to this program again, because being in the business of education, we don’t sell anything.

    We make no recommendations.

    We don’t say, “buy this, do that.” We’re not financial planners. But the reason we want you to go back to richdadradio.com, if you’ve listened to this program one more time, you’ll pick up twice as much, but not only that, if you sit to have your friends, family, and business associates listen to it, and then you discuss it, you’ll find your capacity to learn explodes. So today, our guest is Jason Hartman, he’s a founder and CEO of Hartman Media, and he and Kenny and George Gammon have started some kind of fun that I have no idea what, you guys always creating things out there, but it’s exciting ’cause he has created the Hartman Commodity Index and it’s to compare, what makes sense to everything else?

    – [Sara] Hartman Comparison Index.

    – Oh, comparison. I got commodities on my mind. – [Sara] Sorry. You’re comparing to commodity, but- – So our producer here, what question do you want from Jason?

    – [Sara] So we left off at the first segment and we just learned that, you know, the average price of a home is 348,000. And that would only take 194 ounces of gold compared to in 1970, – [Jason] ’70. – you know, it was much higher, 600 something ounces. So I would like to know, what does that mean to the average consumer? Why do I want care about that?

    – Kim, what do you think about this? I mean, why is this important to you? ‘Cause you know, as an investor, why do you want to know the comparison on some things? – So I wanna know what’s for real. Well, so for example, I think you kinda said it, Jason, is most people will think, you have to hold cash, you have to buy properties in cash, but there’s other places you could put your money where the value of that money could increase dramatically.

    And then your worth is more, – so prices come down, – [Jason] Right.

    – actually, if you can do that. – Yeah, absolutely. – And it’s interesting. You say that Jason, ’cause I was at the sushi bar at AJ’s market and I was talking to one of the girls, there’s two of these two girls, they’re escapees or people from Myanmar.

    They ran away from there and, you know, the immigrants are busting their butts.

    I said, “How many days a week do you work?” She says, “Seven days a week.” And so I said, “Why?” She says, “‘Cause I’m gonna buy a house.

    ” – [Jason] Yeah. – And all I wanted to say, “Guys, get on top of the market.” But I didn’t wanna dampen the, – [Sara] Dream. – oh, a dream. The dream.

    She’s just working. You know how immigrants like them. When the Vietnamese came, they never stopped working. – They work hard, yeah. – Yeah.

    And they saved up and they bought real estate or gold. So anyway, that’s why your Hartman Comparison Index is a crucial thing, I should take it to that sushi girl. (Jason and Robert laughing) – There you go, there you go, exactly. And you know, Robert and Kim, it depends where, right? You know, there are three basic types of markets in the United States or around the world, linear markets, cyclical markets, and hybrid markets.

    And they do act differently. The high-flying markets along the West Coast and the expense of Northeast and where I am in South Florida, those markets are getting pretty frothy for sure, but the good linear markets in the Midwest and the Southeast that aren’t that expensive, I would argue that they’re still pretty cheap-priced in a lot of things when compared to a lot of things. So, you know, you were asking, “What does this mean to people? What do I do with this information?” And we only took one commodity so far, just gold, but it means two things.

    One is that it tells you, you know, it informs you of how you might wanna save your money or store your wealth. Do you wanna store it in dollars that are constantly being debased by the government and the Federal Reserve because they’re just printing more? I mean, there’s two things that value everything on Earth, scarcity and utility. If something is scarce, it’s gonna have more value.

    And if something is useful, it’s gonna have more value.

    – A margin. – Yeah. – Taxes and political influence. – Right. Yeah, well, yes, that was absolutely, absolutely, no question.

    And so, you know, gold is scarce and it does have value in the sense that it’s been considered money for 5,000 years. So if you stored your wealth in gold rather than dollars, you would have been better off during this time because the pricing power or the purchasing power of the dollar has declined dramatically and gold hasn’t, okay? So it’s cheaper to buy a house in gold today, but more expensive to buy it in dollars, right? So that informs that question, how should you store your wealth? The other question it informs is what’s next for the market?

    Is the market too expensive? Well, if you only think of things in dollars, then yeah, you’re gonna say, “Hey, it looks pretty expensive.” But if you think of things compared to a whole variety of other commodities, you might say it’s cheap.

    It depends on the commodity you’re comparing to. – But it also depends upon the mass migrations right now.

    – [Jason] Yeah. These are like the wildebeests going across Africa right now. – [Jason] Yeah. – So Kim, when we just invested in oil, so why do we invest in oil? – Well, several reasons, but of course, tax consequences are great.

    – Taxes. – Taxes are great. – And we save money by not paying taxes. – And also, we’re kind of on the inside of these deals. We’re not buying oil shares and we know the operators.

    So I feel more solid that way, but I wanted to ask, Jason, you know, and we’ve talked about gold and silver and I wanna compare it to oil also. But why is it people are so hesitant to part with their dollars? (Jason, Kim, and Robert laughing) Like wanna hoard their dollars? Why are they doing that? – Kim, that’s a great question.

    And I would argue that they’re just brainwashed, you know, dollars.

    I mean, what real use does a dollar have? Think about it. It’s a piece of, well, not exactly paper, but it’s like cotton fibers or whatever it is. And with, you know, pictures of dead presidents and the value of it is constantly being debased.

    You know, I think Robert has these two. I think he was holding these up if I recall correctly. One of my podcast listeners sent me Zimbabwe dollars, right? This is 100 trillions Zimbabwe dollars right here.

    But what’s the value of it?

    It’s just a little collectible. It has no value, right? And so, the name of something is not the same as the value of something. – [Robert] Yeah. – And so dollars, we only care what they devise us, you know?

    – So how does the Hartman Comparison Index work? I mean, how do you gather your information? Because everything’s in flux. Wait, wait, I’ll ask before we go into that, how does oil compare to gold? – [Kim] Yeah, (indistinct) oil.

    – Yeah. Oh, oil’s an interesting one, Robert, because I would argue that oil is- – So much, the oil prices? – It does, no question. But if you look at it over a long period of time, those fluctuations start to even out, okay? And then it becomes more accurate.

    And this is why you can’t just compare it to one commodity, right? Everybody just compares housing prices to dollars.

    That’s all they do. Why not compare it to a whole bunch of things that every human needs? And oil runs the world, it’s the most important commodity on Earth.

    So in 1970, oil was only $3 a barrel, if you can believe that, (laughs) $3 a barrel. And if you wanted to buy the median price house back in 1970, it was $22,600. You would need to bring the seller 6,746 barrels of oil. (Robert laughs) A lot of oil, right? And today, you still need to bring them a lot of oil.

    Median house price now, as of June, is 348,000, and oil was $75 a barrel at the time. So today, you only need to bring that seller 4,622 barrels of oil. So priced in oil, houses are cheaper. Priced in gold, houses are cheaper than they were 51 years ago. That’s amazing.

    – I know, but the reason I always kick in there is because, you know, we have the cashflow quadrant, E, S, B, and the I. – [Jason] Yeah. – That’s- – [Jason] Well, I love that. – We don’t pay tax on the oil. – [Jason] Right.

    – So that, I mean, it cuts down. I mean, oil is the most efficient thing that we can use to make money. And so just last week, we bought another share of an oil well, not because we like the price of oil, but because we don’t have to pay tax. – [Jason] Yeah. – Do you know what I mean?

    And that’s really what rich dad stands for, is we keep it as simple as possible.

    So your Hartman Comparison Index is interesting. And there’s a whole ‘nother degree you can take beyond that. It’s like I gave Kim and a whole bunch of George Alegre and Peter Schiff, and Mike Malone, why you guys living in Puerto Rico? (Robert laughs) – Yeah, oh, yuck.

    (Kim and Robert laughing) Yeah. A lot of my friends have moved there, including Mark Moss, of course, that we both are friends with.

    – Why? Well, you don’t have to pay tax anyway. – Yeah, right.

    Right, yeah. – Kim, do you wanna educate and enlighten people on tax? – [Jason] Yeah. Robert, I’m curious, are you doing oil and gas exploration? Or just- – Hang on, hang on.

    We’re not an education program here. Let Kim explain how that works with us. – [Kim] How what works? – Oil and gas stuff. – So the oil and gas we get is, you know, the tax code is, Tom Wheelwright says, “it’s a book of incentives.

    ” – [Jason] Right. – And so, because the government doesn’t wanna go into oil production, we get incentives if we fund oil production.

    – [Jason] So if- – So we get major tax write-offs as a result. – So what we do is that, let’s say, I put a million dollars to oil exploration, we got 400,000 back. – Wow, yeah, incredible.

    – You think about that. So rich dad does more on the B and the I side than the E and the S side. Well, and our job is to make it simple as possible. So your index is really good, and the sad thing about is like I was talking about that real estate broker who was flipping houses. Now, she has a tax problem, so she’s just gonna flip some more.

    And then the two refugees from Myanmar, they’re gonna work 7 days a week and they’re saving cash. – [Jason] Yeah. – It’s really interesting. I wish people will listen to this. Any comments, Kim?

    – Yeah, and to the point on the oil and taxes, we still have to do a lot of searching to find a good oil deal.

    We’re never gonna just – [Jason] Right. – do a deal for the tax incentives alone. That oil deal has to make sense and make financial sense and be a nice cashflow to our bottom line. But what I liked, Jason, too, about your comparison index, the Hartman Comparison Index, I think more importantly, what you’re teaching people is where do you store your money?

    – [Jason] Yeah.

    – Where do you store your wealth? Where do you store your value of what you have? I think that’s crucial. And ’cause everybody has trained us to hold dollars and pesos and yuan and all of that, but I think that’s probably the most valuable lesson of all.

    – It’s true. Because if you would have stored it in oil or gold, you would have been much better off than dollars. – Correct. – [Jason] Yeah. – And taxes.

    (Robert laughs) – Yeah, and tax wise, that’s another big benefit of course. Yeah. – And political incentives. That’s why those guys like Gammon down in Puerto Rico. – [Jason] Right.

    – (indistinct) politics. – I say, “You don’t have to pay a tax,” she says, “I went and pay tax here anyway.” But anyway, the thing I like about what you’re doing, Jason, is getting people to think.

    – [Jason] Yeah. – You know, that is the most important thing you can do today is think, compare, look at different, you know, “How you do this, how do people do that?

    ” But most people, when we were in Miami together, you know, with George Gammon. This girl comes out to me, she says, “Should I buy a real estate?” And I lost it. I’ve been in this business too long, Jason. I said, “holy mackerel.

    ” I mean, you know, they have this teacher, please tell me what to do. – Right, yeah. Instead of think it through yourself, you mean, right? That’s thinking. – (indistinct) thing is the hardest work there is.

    – [Jason] Yeah. – That’s why so few people engage in it.

    – Yeah, that’s a real nightingale, I think. He used to say that, yeah. – What I’m glad is you’re getting people to think.

    – [Jason] Yeah. – Not give ’em answers. It’s a very big difference. – [Jason] Right. – You know what I mean?

    – [Jason] Yeah. – And another question I have is, ’cause we didn’t talk about inflation or deflation, but inflation and deflation is only measured in a currency, right? – [Jason] Right.

    – It’s not measured in real value of goods and services. – Yeah.

    Yep, I agree. But it is measured in the sense that we lose purchasing power of those goods and services, which is sad. That’s how they’re impoverishing the population and concentrating wealth among the super rich through debasing the dollars because poor people and people that don’t listen to your show and don’t read the “Rich Dad” books. They don’t understand how to store their wealth, how to store their hard-earned labor, which is really what you’re doing. You’re trading your labor.

    I mean, if you’re at the, you know, E part of the quadrant, right? You’re trading your labor for dollars, which is not the best way, but that’s what most people do. And then they get taxed at the highest rate and then they store it in dollars and the fed and the government is stealing out from under it, inflation is a pickpocket, it’s a thief, you know? – That’s what Buffett said, it’s one of the greatest punishments there is, it’s inflation.

    – [Jason] Yeah.

    – Inflation is very simple as volume times velocity. So they’re printing as much money as possible and they’re speeding up the spending of it. So that’s why John Williams, his ShadowStats was stealing a solid 15%. So that means mom and pop or the girl working, cutting ups, you know, sushi, whatever she’s doing, he’s falling behind us at such high rate of speed. – It’s terrible, yeah.

    – So let me ask again, Robert, you said inflation is measured in volume and velocity. So the more money is being printed and then they’re spending it like crazy with all these stimulus programs and everything. So that that’s like a perfect storm for inflation. Is that what you’re saying? – Yes, and that’s what George Gammon’s last thing was on the repo and reverse repo markets, and all this, is very simply is that because the thing was deflating, they had to inflate the volume and inject it directly via stimulus straight to the market.

    Generally, they have to go through the banks to borrow money. So Kim and I had our advantage ’cause we could borrow money. – [Jason] Right. – But people couldn’t borrow money anymore. And so they print the trillions and they inject it via STEMI checks.

    And then the Robinhood and Bitcoin. I mean in Bitcoin, – [Jason] Yeah. – it takes off, and all this stuff goes crazy. So the reason, you know, Jason, I was really happy to have you come on, ’cause the Hartman Commodity Index is we’re in a mania right now. I mean, – We are.

    – we’ve never been here in all the history of the United States, we have never been here before. – [Jason] Yeah. – And so what your index is doing is giving people just some comparison, so you can figure out what’s going up and what’s coming down.

    – Understand where you are, yeah. We are in a mania and people in manias, Robert, they just lose their head.

    They’re so afraid of loss, that fear of loss drives them to make bad decisions. – One more, when great fear of missing out in great. – [Jason] Yeah. – You know, it was funny was that there was a tulipomania. – [Jason] Yeah.

    – That’s one of the funniest things I ever read was that there were tulip bulbs were going through the roof, you know? And the funniest part about it was this one person comes in from overseas and they didn’t know it was a tulip bulb and ate it. (Robert laughing) – I wonder how that turned out. (Jason and Robert laughing) – Well, Jason, in terms of your index and all, ’cause you study a lot and you do a lot of research.

    What do you see coming down the pipe?

    What’s your crystal ball say? – You know, Kim, the crystal ball is a tough one, but I would say that I think we’ve got a ways to go on the real estate market. I think it’s cooling a bit. People are taking a little bit of a breather right now, I think. That’s just a very new thing, so it’s hard to say if that’ll continue, but I think overall, the real estate prices are gonna hold up for another year or two pretty well.

    The stock market, I don’t know, you know. And the economy itself is built on a house of cards. The whole thing is largely fake, but the question is, will it crash someday? Of course it will. But how long can they kick the can down the road when you got the biggest military on Earth and you’re the biggest country, the biggest economy, and you know, you can kick that can down the road a long time, when you’ve got that reserve currency status, there’s a lot of games that the US can benefit from that they play, so.

    .. – What’s that, Jason? I just listened to my friend, Jim Rickards. This is like just waiting for that last snowflake.

    – Right, yeah. (Jason laughing) – Snowflake, what’s the last snowflake? – That last little bit. – And we don’t know, it could be what that next piece of sushi that girl cuts. (Robert laughing) – [Jason] Yeah.

    Could be. – Well, anyway, you know, thank you for doing what you do. How do people access your Hartman Comparison Index? – They can just go to my website, jasonhartman.com And I’ve also got a little free mini book for your listeners.

    I did a bunch of stuff with Ken McElroy on pandemic investing and so that’s available at pandemicinvesting.com Just some of these principles as they apply to this crazy world that they’ve, you know, spiraled the entire planet into, that’s maybe a whole ‘nother discussion, but there’s just a free little book at pandemicinvesting.com as well. – Well, thank you, thank you, thank you. Oh, when we come back, we’ll (indistinct) of the last words.

    So Jason, thank you very much. And Kim and I will stay on for the final word with Sara. Thank you. – [Jason] Thank you. Bye, bye.

    – [Jason] Bye, bye. – [Sara] Take care. – Welcome back, Robert Kiyosaki, “The Rich Dad Radio Show,” the good news and bad news about money. The special thanks to Jason Hartman and his Hartman Media group and jasonhartman.com But most importantly, his Hartman Comparison Index because it really forces you to think outside the box from just money and all this, and ’cause, you know, that’s all Kim and I do is we’re always comparing what’s going up, what’s coming down and things like this.

    And generally, the dollar has been going down as far as I’m concerned. Any comments on that, Kim? – Yeah, I thought this was really interesting because you know, I met Jason and he talked about his index before, but I never realized how valuable it is in terms of the value of where you’re storing your money. Where do you store your money and where it gets the most value? And yeah, you and I have been storing it in silver since we first met, in gold and oil – And oil.

    – and real estate and everything that we can touch and feel, that is real. – (indistinct) pretty face on (indistinct). – You didn’t give a face, ’cause people actually recognize you by voice, it’s funny. – [Sara] Yeah. – At an event, they’re like, “I know that voice, you’re on the ‘Radio Show.

    ‘” (Kim and Robert laughing) – That’s right. So now you’d see my lovely face.

    – [Robert] That’s right. (Sara laughs) – And she’s the best, man. I don’t know what we find with you, but you’re the best and it keeps the ball moving.

    And we’ve gotta get Tom Wheelright on to explain taxes, especially to all those yo-yos living in Puerto Rico. (Robert laughing) – So Sara, what did you take away from Jason’s interview today? – So I think like you, the biggest takeaway was so what? Right? So who cares if I compare, you know, the price of houses to gold, but I think the important thing for me was, well, how are you storing your wealth?

    ‘Cause as the dollar is losing value, these other commodities that you can compare it to, you know, you can see the value of your dollar going down, but these commodities are holding still or even rising in value.

    – Yeah. And the most important thing is just pay attention ’cause it’s changing so, so fast. For instance, George Gammon, you know, he had this incredible podcast upon the repo market and reverse repo. And if you don’t understand that, you go, “Oh my God,” you know, basically what’s happening is people can’t go to the banks anymore, commercial banks, so the fed and the treasury have to inject money directly into the economy, directly.

    Those are those STEMI checks, which sends the stock market into a bubble, which means you don’t know exactly, as Jason says, what’s price discovery? What’s it really worth? Where’s that money coming from? So the reason, you know, the Hartman Comparison Index is so important today is because we don’t know what anything’s worth anymore. So it’s like you’re just watching kinda these bobbing balls going up and down on the ocean.

    And I feel for those young women from Myanmar, who escaped Myanmar to be working at a sushi bar, working seven days a week, saving cash to buy a house.

    And she says, “What do you think?” I said, “I didn’t wanna say anything,” because I don’t know what to think. And then the real estate agent who has been making money on commissions and flipping houses, and not paying taxes, so her solution is she’s gotta flip more houses, I’m going, “My God, this is nuts. This is like tulipomania where the guy ate the tulip.

    ” (Kim and Robert laughing) – So I have a question, ’cause we’ve talked briefly in our trip to Miami about the CPI, the Consumer Price Index. Why is that not a good index or indicator of what’s happening? – [Robert] The numbers are fake.

    – They keep changing what’s in it, number one. And then the pricing and all is not quite accurate.

    Now, one thing about the CPI, the Consumer Price Index, that I learned recently is the government wants that number to be low because they have a lot of debt to pay back. And if that number is low, it’s cheaper for them to pay back their debt if they ever pay it back, really. But it is cheaper for government, if that index is low.

    So if they can manipulate it to keep the CPI, the Consumer Price Index low, it benefits government. – Well, it’s not only that is that if they raise the CPI, Kim and I make more money, because a lot of our properties are indexed to inflation.

    – Yeah, a lot of people have properties indexed to inflation and the CPI. Yep. – So right now, if the national debt is 30 trillion and it goes to a 5%, how much is that 1.5 trillion in interest payments alone, that blows out the whole – [Sara] Wow. – gross domestic product.

    – And I think I heard this morning that inflation, they’re expecting to hit 7% in the next year. – No, there’s a guy, John Williams of ShadowStats.

    He’s great because I love his shadowstats.com He says it’s 15% right now. – [Sara] Wow, wow.

    – But he uses the measures before Nixon took us off the gold standard. – [Kim] Yeah. – So as long as the dollar was on the gold standard, not that it wasn’t much inflation, but it was production, it was a true market. But what happens after they took the gold off the gold standard, this is in the ’71, I remember going to my favorite Chinese restaurant in Hawaii, and that menu would be whited out every day because the price of chao fan or chow mein was going up every day and it went out of control. And that’s when this guy Volcker came in and just crushed it, went to 25% interest rates or something like that.

    And that crushed the real estate market. And so Kim and I made a fortune because the real estate market prices crashed, interest rates were high, and Kim and I would go and negotiate directly with the seller.

    We bypassed everybody. And there were these things called, what were they called? What?

    No. – The RRTs. – Non-qualifying. – Oh, no qualifying, yeah. – Unqualifying loans.

    And so, we’ll look for these loans at 8% when interest rates were at 20%. So we’d find a guy with a house with an 8% loan on it. And that’s how we made our money. We just bought all these houses with 8% loans. We had no money, but they were so desperate to get out.

    They’re happy with it. “Yeah, we’ll take over your loan for you, ’cause we could rent it for more than the price of the loan.” – And that’s (indistinct). – There’s always an opportunity. – Whoops, sorry.

    And that’s to your point, Robert, people have to start thinking. (Kim laughing) They have to start thinking. There’s other ways to do it than just go to a traditional bank and get a traditional loan. There’s a lot of very creative ways to finance things these days. – Yeah.

    – One last question though, because we’re seeing the forbearance, you know, that program’s gonna end July 31st, I think.

    – [Kim] We hope so, we hope so. – So could that same scenario happen where these people might’ve had, you know, a 5 or 6% loan, they can’t catch up on their payments, so they’re gonna find people who will buy it, you know? Is that a potential? – Yeah, yeah, they’re definitely.

    There’s a big potential for a lot of properties to come on the market once the forbearance is lifted. Absolutely. – So Kim, you know, Tim Tanner, our friend, – [Kim] Yeah. – we bought our Payson House from him, he called me, he says, there’s a huge boy scout camp for sale up there. And I said, “I’m out.

    ” He goes, “Why?” I said, “Because I don’t know, this is the top of a market.” – [Kim] Yeah. – You know, I don’t go in at the tops. And I said, “What else you got?

    ” He says, “I have this guy who can build a house for half price because of a new construction system.” So Spencer and I meeting with him on Friday because new technology is gonna bring the advances.

    So we’re not doom and gloomers, we’re just saying, “be aware of what’s happening.” And as there’s changes and people are hemorrhaging all over the place, it’s always a good time to get rich too. So that’s why, what Jason was talking about, his comparison in this and all that.

    It’s a matter of just being aware. – [Sara] Yep, good. – Any final comments there, Sara? – No, another great show. And I’m glad we had this extra time at the end to really discuss the opportunity.

    Because like you said, “There’s always an opportunity, it’s just being aware of what those are.” – Yeah, I’m not gonna buy a boy scout camp, you know, because what would I do with it at the top of a market? But if somebody has a technology can do more for less, I’m interested. – Unless if that boy scout camp is going into foreclosure or something else and they have a desperate seller and there might be an opportunity. So you never know, you never know.

    (Kim laughs) So again, thank you to Jason Hartman. jasonhartman.com Thank you, Sara. Thank you, Robert. – [Sara] Thank you, Kim.

    – And thank (indistinct) “The Rich Dad Radio Show.”.

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